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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Team Tourney? (Read 18989 times)
Larry S.
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Re: Team Tourney?
Reply #45 - 10/06/04 at 01:02:58
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Back to your Question Russ....me and Bill fished drop shot robo worms and Bitsy Bugs around bridge pillings and on break lines.....same as last year....but the fish had not had a chance to get the perch into schools like we had hoped so we had to adjust to a deep dock pattern with the same baits.
  
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Rich
Ex Member


Re: Team Tourney?
Reply #46 - 10/06/04 at 01:32:34
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YAWN...I am going to bed

Rich
  
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The_Rev.
Ex Member


Re: Team Tourney?
Reply #47 - 10/06/04 at 01:48:25
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As ususal, the use of "written communication" has displayed it's major handicap - the fact that few of us do it well, and especially in relationship to written "gesting/teasing".  Why?  Because, there is no body language to watch, no winks, no elbows given to the guy next to you, no looks of "I'm pulling your leg."  The writer often ASSUMES that every one knows what "tone" we are using (whether we are teasing or not) - but in reality, most of what we write is "toneless" - and there's always a looming danger that our message, (when read at face value), presents an impression quite opposite of what we mean.  

For example, if you were to find a slip of paper on the floor with these words "You Son of a B_____!", most people are going to interprete that as someone sending someone else a nasty piece of their mind!  What we may NOT know is that this person was writing to his best friend who pulled a good joke on him.  Both knew the context of the statement and both were laughing.  The majority of readers of that note however would be unable to detect the humorous tone of the message.  If, as Russ states, that he was teasing, this is an example of a message without "tone" attached.  I'm willing to believe that what he wrote was not meant to be shared in an offensive way, but with humor.

But having said that, I raise another trap that e-mailers and forum writers fall into; moving from "jest" into a "serious topic" without realizing that the two may be viewed as a single unit.  There is no doubt Russ feels strongly about the camera, (one that the vast MAJORITY of club members VOTED on several years ago - allowing it's use), but the fact that he attached it to the toneless jest in his first statement - he confused the readers.  

Here's how the detached reader heard it: 1) The team won because they used a camera.  2) Cameras are unethical.  It doesn't take much to come to the unsaid conclusion;  Therefore since the winning team used the camera - they are unethical.  That may not be what Russ MEANT by bringing up both subjects at one time, but the majority of readers will not be able to see the break between the two subjects... they will not be able to detect the two separate "tones"(one humorous - the other serious) and will blend them automatically.  Again - this is the danger of the written word without facial gestures, verbal clues, and "irony" in the voice.

In this case, if Russ had wanted to separate these two thoughts so they would not be blended into one thought and incorrect conclusion, he would have had better results by not putting them both in one sentence. "I bet on the Logston team to win it. You know mostly because of the use of a camera which I strongly believe shouldn't be used in a tournament. I still wonder to this day why the club voted for it. It takes the sportsmanship as well as the ethics out of it all."  These should have been separated into two statements in two separate paragraphs, or BETTER YET... they should have been raised in two different forum categories.  

As to what is ALLOWED in jest and humor, the third trap Russ fell into was thinking that all "topics" are fair game; after all - it was pointed out that many people get teased about the boats they drive!  True enough!  The problem with that is, nowhere in the conversation about "boats" is a person's value or ethical character being attacked.  99% of the time, a person may be able to tease a person about what clothes they choose to wear, the car they drive, and what boat they run WITHOUT them taking it personal.   (Agreed, there is still that 1% taking it personally - so it's risky.)  But you can't present an idea of someone being "unethical" and expect 99% not to be offended.  

Believe me, some of us understand "funny" and the limits of wise teasing, while others will never be accused of being funny, most fall somewhere in between.  I personall love to laugh, but I admit it - I'm just not a "funny  guy".  When I try to do it - it usually blows up in my face.  Some of that is because people think of me as a fairly serious guy (a fact).  People EXPECT me to say serious things first, and are surprized if I do "A funny".  However, when I go fishing with Larry (NOW HE"S FUNNY!) - I expect funny statements before I expect serious.  It may be just my opinion - but the vast majority of conversations I've had with Russ were serious.  That simply means that when Russ writes somthing on the forum - I expect serious first.  My "expectation" (Russ = serious) may even blind me to any humorus "clues" that I might have picked up on if I had expected "funny".

What I am saying to all forum users is this:  PLEASE BE CAREFUL when writing in these forums.  If you are saying something tongue in cheek, please understand that only a small percentage of people have the English language down and the "art of humor" mastered to the point that their every written sentence is clear and precise and cannot be misunderstood.  So before you hit the "POST" button - ask yourself; Is there any way that someone can take what I just wrote down in the wrong way?  If so, rewrite it... OR just let it go!  

I'm proud of Russ for his apology, (I've made several of them myself lately), and I was tempted to let his statement end the conversation.  But like an idiot who won't take his own advice, I'm taking the risk of writing on a serious subject KNOWING that I risk someone taking it in a way that is far from what I intended.  The key is; can we all learn from this experience as to why the written language holds so many DANGERS? ...most of us are not English majors and forget that it's toneless.  Caution is always needed.

  
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Nick
Ex Member


Re: Team Tourney?
Reply #48 - 10/06/04 at 02:27:06
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Hey Guys,
I know it's hard to joke around over the posts. That because if you leave out a word it can make the text look like it insulting someone. So just read between the lines and learn whos a joker from a serious person. I've only met Russ once and I know he likes to joke around. Guys just quit judging people by what they post. It's stupid. I think Russ just left out a few words and it came off wrong. And Russ maybe read over what you type. I know I've done it a few times and it's helped me. I don't like seeing things being throw out of proportion. Andrea you did have the right to stick up for Lyle and Brian though.
  
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EX-PREZ
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Re: Team Tourney?
Reply #49 - 10/06/04 at 02:52:12
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Clubbers,
  My qiuck thoughts on the matter!  Cameras, own one, don't use it in a tournament.  Why, can't catch fish with them.  A majority rules vote allowed them to be used, whether it was used or not this year.  Last time I checked, a vote was the ultimate right or wrong solver.  Lyle, Brian CONGRATULATIONS!  You rock!  If you've figured out a way of catching fish on a camera, will you tell me how you did it? Grin  All I can ever accomplish with the stupid thing is wasting valuable fishing time looking at all the PIGS directly below me that wont bite anything in the boat!  Great job guys!  Don't take all this too seriously, we bass fisherman know who catch fish, THE ONES WHO WEIGH IN THE MOST FISH FOR THE MOST WEIGHT WINS!  It's a pretty simple concept, play by the rules, whether you agree with them or not, weigh in the most fish for the most weight, you got nothing to explain to anyone!
  

SPONSORS:&&MY BEAUTIFUL WIFE!&&1st pick at the raffle (when we have a raffle)&&TEAM NO BOAT PAYMENT/ NO TRUCK PAYMENT&&AQUA VU CAMERAS (borrowed from Terry, scratch that, he took it back)&&STRATOS boats (pre-owned division)&&YAMAHA (came with the STRATOS boat)
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Larry S.
Ex Member


Re: Team Tourney?
Reply #50 - 10/06/04 at 03:03:33
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Having been the T.D. for several tournies now I have noticed one thing......not one fish has mentioned anything about a camera!



Although as Bill can attest....I have Invited the fish for a Ride and a Photo! Grin Grin

THIS SPORT ROCKS!!!
  
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Bill Brynteson
Ex Member


Re: Team Tourney?
Reply #51 - 10/06/04 at 04:16:16
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I just wanted to add that I personally believe that Lyle and Brian are two very, very good Bass fisherman and it is a real pleasure to compete against them both.  When the pressure was on, they came through with flying colors and I for one was very happy for them.

I would like also to give a big "Atta Boy" to all who fished in the team tournament.  You were all great, Larry and I had a blast teasing everyone and getting razzed in return.  The atmosphere was what I have come to expect when attending our club tournaments, good fun, good comraderie, and healthy competition doing what we all have a passion for doing.

Larry and I already have our T-shirts planned for next year, so plan on attending the tournament  to see what we have up our sleeves.

But be prepared, we
will
 be gunning to regain our title  Grin

Good Job Gentlemen
BillB

  
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shewhofishes
Ex Member


Re: Team Tourney?
Reply #52 - 10/06/04 at 04:28:50
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I think everyone did great at the tournament no matter what place you took...at least you showed up and hopefully had fun.  I wanted to be there, but wasn't feeling up to being on a boat, it might be a few months before I can stomach a boat ride!  
Just a thought on the camera thing, in my experience, you may see fish with the camera, but it doesn't mean that they will take your bait.  Also, in regards to not being fair because not everyone can afford a camera, is it an unfair advantage to the anglers that can afford faster boats, more rod & reels, etc.   Just fish for thought!

My only suggestion for the change in rules for the tournaments in 2006, that if you don't believe a camera should be used in tournaments, please fill out a change of rule form next Sept and put it to a club vote.

Congrats to all that fished and may 2005 be full of fish for everyone!
Sherry
  
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Daryl_S.
Ex Member


Re: Team Tourney?
Reply #53 - 10/06/04 at 16:29:51
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Does this mean I can keep my camera? Or do I need to buy one of those catch-in cameras. By the way, how do you turn it on?

Ron, If you do figure out how to catch them with a camera, please let me know. I need all the help I can get.

Daryl

ha ha ha laugh laugh ha ha ha
  
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Rob M.
Ex Member


Re: Team Tourney?
Reply #54 - 10/06/04 at 20:16:22
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Here's some useful advise on cameras...don't drop the sunshield in the water. They don't float.
  
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Rwfaz
Ex Member


Re: Team Tourney?
Reply #55 - 10/06/04 at 20:28:15
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I believe Larry Gonczy is one person who has figured out how to catch Bass with a camera, check the footage he has of a Smallie going after a lure tied to the actual camera itself - pretty cool! The fish seemed to come out of nowhere and put on a burst of acceleration to come after the lure, I don't remember if it actually bit or just came for a look.

Guess you'd need a big reel and really stout rod to cast a camera....

Faz
  
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EX-PREZ
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Re: Team Tourney?
Reply #56 - 10/07/04 at 02:59:10
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Hey guys and gals,
  Faz, as you were also the T.D., you should also be aware of the clause, "all fish must be caught in a conventional and sporting manner". Tongue  Larry tying a crankbait to the back of his camera doesn't actually fall into this catagory.  I do agree that it is cool, but beware, your actions could be questioned next year! Grin  FYI, dragging a dropshot or splitshot lizard or something will be much "SAFER" if anyone finds out how you caught them.  Food for thought!
  

SPONSORS:&&MY BEAUTIFUL WIFE!&&1st pick at the raffle (when we have a raffle)&&TEAM NO BOAT PAYMENT/ NO TRUCK PAYMENT&&AQUA VU CAMERAS (borrowed from Terry, scratch that, he took it back)&&STRATOS boats (pre-owned division)&&YAMAHA (came with the STRATOS boat)
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Man_with_a_view
Ex Member


Re: Team Tourney?
Reply #57 - 10/07/04 at 19:59:23
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I have been reading your chat here. I am not, nor have I ever been, a memeber of Western Bass. I felt compelled to register and offer a view point though. First of all, as to the use of cameras and tournaments. My opinion (please note this is just an opinion and I don't want to be hated for it as it appears can be the practice of your club) is no cameras in a tournament. The whole spirit of a tournament is to put your knowledge and skill against both fish and fisherman alike. Part of that skill includes the ability to locate fish of the proper species and size. I am an accomplished fisherman with my fair share of tournament wins. You show me a pile of fish and the odds that I catch them is pretty decent. Or at a minimum greatly increased. For practice I guess it is ok but I still think it takes the spirit out of why we all fish in the first place.
As for the way individuals in this this organization treat each other.......
Poorly at best . One more bit of proof as to why I no longer am a member of any local club. I once was and l left that club for very much the same reason that I have been reading here. We are all individals with different beliefs an practices (In fishing and in life as a whole) Just because some one does not practice or believe the same as the majority does not mean that person should be black balled by the rest. Respect each other and learn from each other and most of all have fun....... why fish if you don't?
I know a few of the members of this orginization and I know two things for sure. One there are some really good fisherman here. Two that we as fisherman, sportsman and, most of all, human beings.....are better than what has been displayed in this forum........
Look in the mirror and ask the person you see how he would like to be treated and treat all people that way......Just an obsevation from the outside looking in...
  
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Doug_Booth
Ex Member


Re: Team Tourney?
Reply #58 - 10/07/04 at 23:57:42
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I would like to respond to you post.  I have been a member of this particular club for a few years now and I can tell you while a number of member's may have a differing view on some topics this club treats all it's members well.  It welcomes all with no prejudice... not just people who think the same way, with the exception of our unanamious love of bass fishing.  I hope you reconsider your decision not to be a member of any local club.  There is a great deal of comradiary to be had and the opportunity to share with different generations your expertise and possible learn something as well.  Communication is the key to all good relationships between groups of people.  To feel passionate about any idea is a good thing.  While sometimes those beliefs can trigger reactions or comments that may not have been well thought out, its still part of being human.  I can imagine one might draw some of the same conclusions that you have, when you have only been exposed to part of the story.  I think any member that regularly particpate in all aspects of all the club's functions would be able to draw a much better conclusion about  the well being of the club and its members.  I certainly welcome you to be a part of our club and get to learn first hand about us and not judge us on a very minimal portion (website) of our club.  Hatred is not something Western Bass Club is about.  When your on the "outside looking in" you certainly can not see the anything except the shell of what's inside.
  
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Larry S.
Ex Member


Re: Team Tourney?
Reply #59 - 10/08/04 at 03:51:06
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Well put both of you.....it is this kind of sharing of opinions and idealisms that allow us to survive as a club for so long and is the promise of a strong future.....as we all know, those seemingly heated discussions are just a way of growth and those involved will go on fishing together and sharing comraderie because we all know the ultimate goal is to share this great pastime with all.
  
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